Episode 7: Why get difficult books of the Bible open with others? A Conversation with Amy Wicks

Season 12: Micah

1 Nov

Why bother opening up difficult books of the Bible, like Micah, with others? That's what we're talking about today as we press pause on our Bible study and chat to our friend and Bible teacher Amy Wicks. Join us for this conversation as Amy helps us to see the value of giving it a go!

This episode is paid for thanks to our listeners partnership. We’re so grateful for the ways in which you are joining us on our podcasting journey: as you listen, as you pray for us and as you reach out in numerous ways.
If you haven't, but would like to financially support us or receive our monthly newsletter you can visit our website here.
The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
Felicity: You're listening to the Two Sisters and a Cup of Tea podcast, the Bible Study podcast for everyday life. We're here for a 20 -minute burst of Bible chat over a cup of tea and an English style biscuit as we make our way through a Bible book over the course of the season and drive it to our hearts. And this season, we're in Micah. Whether you've been listening for a while or have just found us, we're so pleased you're here.
Sarah: We've been blown away by the generous partnership of our listeners over the last few months. We love all the ways in which that's been shown, praying for us, getting in touch with encouragement and financially supporting us too. One of the results of this partnership is that an episode like this doesn't need to be sponsored. This one is all thanks to you for generously giving. We thank God for you all. If you'd like to give towards the podcast, do head to our website, twosistersandacuppatea.com and click on the partner with us tab. We are so grateful.
Felicity: Welcome to Two Sisters and a Cup of Tea. My names Felicity, I’m here in the States. As ever, I have have my sister Sarah with me, she’s in the UK. And this week, we are delighted to have with us an old friend of ours called Amy Wicks, who we’ve known for many years, and in all the years that I’ve known her she has been passionate for getting the Bible open with people. She currently lives in Glasgow. She works on a staff team at a church up there where she is serving the women and looking after discipleship and pastoral care. And I love that Amy is in action getting the Bible open with people all the time. Amy, we’re delighted to have you with us.
Amy: So great to be here.
Felicity: Amy, anything I've missed, anything I should be including

Amy: I think that's the key info. We worked together on a staff team and I think the main part of both our jobs was Bible studies and particularly one -to -ones and I was probably learning along with you so yeah that's how we knew each other.
Sarah: How integral was cups of tea to that situation.
Amy: I mean it's pretty integral to any kind of one to one ministry I think.
Felicity: I love your deadpan delivery of that.
Amy: I think it's important, but I think when you're in I mean particularly in London we had to do a lot of one -to -ones in cafes so you're you're out and about meeting people in their lunch hour getting the Bible open in public and so finding the right cafe for that is really important and pacing your cups of coffee like I used to think which one -to -one is happening today near the best coffee shop and then would like save my cup of coffee for that one to one and things so it's a lot of scheduling to think about yeah
Felicity: A lot of strategy, strategy involved with yes. I love it. So once a day, a good cup of coffee, but tea, biscuit, know, what's your preference?
Amy: tea well actually right now I've gone straight Earl Grey and I'm in an Earl Grey phase and biscuit of choice I love a malted milk which is the one with the cows on and the absolute dream and you can't get them everywhere is a chocolate covered malted milk but they're quite hard to find so
Sarah: I actually saw them the other day in supermarket and I had like a flashback of like, I remember how good those were!
Amy: Mmm. Just something about them, yeah.
Sarah: Very good. Very good. Well, Amy, this season we are kind of working our way through the Book of Micah. Tell us, what is your experience of getting Micah open with others?
Amy: Yeah, so this is a live situation for me. I am in the middle of my first go at doing Mica for a one -to -one. So I am studying it with a woman at church who is actually from Hong Kong. She emigrated to the UK about a year ago so we're sort of we're doing it in a second language. She's never studied it before and we just did chapter four yesterday so I'm in I'm in the thick of it right now and loving it I have to say.
Felicity: Love it. why go for something like Micah? As you've said, this is your first time doing it. Micah is not the kind of the normal choice, the natural choice in some ways, especially as you say, you've described a second language person there. Aren't there easier books to go for? Why are you going for Micah?
Amy: Yeah, I think there are easier books to go for, but we are enjoying doing some Old Testament Bible study. So the woman I'm studying with, we've done some one Peter, two Peter, we did Ephesians. That was great. The kind of Bible study we're doing is quite new to her, but we were ready for something a bit different and I think the simple answer for me is it's in the Bible and God thought it was important enough to put there and so he thinks there's something there to say to us. He has something to reveal to every believer and that basic conviction I think often propels me to dig into books that I am less familiar with because I think if I don't go to them I am missing out on something important that God thought it was worth saying. So really it's that kind of quite fundamental conviction that the Bible is God's word and he really pushes me to get excited about books I don't know very well and thinking I'm going to find out some stuff here and it's going to be worth it.
Felicity: I love that, so sort of a sense of adventure and that together, gonna understand more of who God is.
Sarah: Really, really helpful. So to push you on that, Amy, like you are someone who's been to seminary over the last few years, you're employed to study the Bible with others in your local church. For those who are just kind of seeking to get the Bible open in the midst of busy everyday life, I'm thinking maybe two women who were working full time and trying to do this on the fringes, maybe after work one day or early in the morning. Why is opening up the harder books with one another worth it, even when it's squeezed time. I know you've of touched on that already in terms of the value of what God said, but trying to encourage people that it is really worth it, even if they can't give an extended amount of time to it.
Amy: Yeah, so I think the first thing I would say is that a book like Micah is maybe not as hard as you think and that has been the really interesting thing for us getting into this book and in fact Rachel who I study with said this to me last week she said she thought it was clearer than one Peter and I was like right okay I was not expecting that response to Micah but you know there's some there's some pretty wild parts of one and two Peter and you think you're just like doing an epistle and then you know stuff happens. And a book like Micah it's unfamiliar and the type of writing might be unfamiliar to us so the way that we go about understanding it as scripture feels a bit different but when you read it and you let God's word just have the impact on you that it's meant to. It turns out it's quite clear and sort of easier to get into than you think. It might just take a bit of time and a bit of kind of mulling on things. But one thing I've just been really helped by recently is thinking about the fact that God's word has been written in a way that is meant to make us think and is meant to make us kind of chew it over and kind of grapple with it and particularly with kind of poetry and the kind of poetry that we get in in the prophets is that understanding it and kind of getting to grips with it is not it's not like reading a paragraph and saying well what does this mean in a like two plus two equals four way but it's really about sitting in the language and and kind of letting it wash over us wallowing in it sitting in it and going this is I don't know this is this is a scary bit or this is a this is a well yesterday we had this was a really nice bit which I think is a Hong Kong way of saying encouraging we enjoyed the beauty of the language. So it's just a very different kind of conversation that you might expect to have, but I would just want to encourage people that as you sit in a book like Micah and maybe just go over it a few times, the language does start to go to work on your heart and your mind. it's not, basically it's not as hard as you think, with the exception of chapter one, which I found quite hard. But once we got through that, we were having a great time, yeah.
Felicity: That's so thought provoking actually to think that there's almost an experiential element to that, that as we are sitting in it and allowing it to percolate that God himself is working in us and through us and that we shouldn't then be shying away from the bits that we struggle to make perfect sense of. It's really helpful, just a really helpful reminder of what God is doing as we get his word open.
Sarah: Particularly in the nature of Micra as well, where we've been seeing the cycles as it go through the book, judgment, mercy, judgment, mercy. actually, you continue spiralling through those cycles, it does percolate, doesn't it? It does kind of, it goes deeper and deeper as you think about it. And I think, yeah, it's been really helpful in that, it, so far in how we've been sitting in it together. Let's press a bit deeper than Amy, so people, so you're at the end of chapter four and we're a little bit further along but there's been a lot of judgment in the book so far and people generally don't like to dwell on the topic of God's judgment but in my Micah so far we've been seeing that it is right, it's necessary and it is good news in the midst of an oppressed and suffering world. Can you speak into something of the fears people might have of kind of delving into a book like this and the heavy conversations that inevitably arise off the back of it? It's just not something we like to dwell on over a cup of tea normally, is it? But yeah, can you just speak into something of that where people might be feeling a bit fearful about the thought of those kind of topics coming up in conversation?
Amy: Yeah, I think there's a lot to say here. think one... mean, Micah, first of all, encourages us to see that if you shy away, or if you hold back from talking about judgment, and this is really striking in, is it chapter 3? You God doesn't like it. God says that is false prophecy, false teaching to think I'm not going to say anything about judgment. So I think there is a little bit of warning there, or quite big warning. And so one thing to do is just kind of reflect on why we're holding back from that. I think a second, another thing I've been really helped by thinking about recently is actually just a sermon series in the summer on John's gospel. And we got to John chapter 10 and Jesus talks about being the good shepherd but he talks about the sheep and he says the sheep know the master's voice and this has been a really helpful thought for me as I think about getting the Bible open with brothers and sisters is that sheep the sheep know the master's voice and so not to expect that everybody that you open Micah with is going to freak out at the idea of judgment. So just trust that Jesus sheep are going to enjoy his word. And it might not be as bad as you think to talk about God's judgment. And actually, again, the way that Micah is written goes to work on us and helps us see how devastating it is for God's people when the message of judgment is held back. So that's been really helpful. Kind of trust that Jesus' children love to hear what he has to say. So if you get the word open, you are likely going to have a good talk about it. But then to realize that there is a kind of process of sanctification, a process of growing to be more like Jesus. And so when people find issues of judgment difficult, it's just to be patient and again, trust God's word to do the work and just to realize it's not my job to persuade you about judgment, to make you think it's a good idea. And particularly over, you know, if you've got half an hour or an hour over a cup of tea, that is not a very long time. And I don't want the dynamic to be that I'm gonna try and get you to say that you're on board with everything in Micah two or Micah one, whatever. But I'm just gonna hold out God's word to you, help you see what's there. And then if somebody is finding it difficult, I think just the best thing to do is listen and just start asking questions. okay, tell me about that. Tell me what you're thinking, there particular reasons you're finding that hard? I'd love to explore that with you. And then be patient and sort of be okay with finishing your time together with some loose ends and not having solved it. But trust that over time God is at work. And you know, there will be times when that message hardens people. I think I've seen that in the past. I remember studying Romans with a girl and we got, where did we get to? I can't remember. Maybe it was only chapter one and some quite hard things about judgment. And then I texted her the next week and I just, I'd never heard back from her and she never got back in touch to meet up and study. So that might happen. But actually, what is more likely to happen is that as you just patiently hold out God's word to people, again, it does the work for you of changing our hearts and minds and starting to see how good God is in the midst of quite a hard message.
Felicity: Gold dust. That's gems of pastoral experience there, I think. And I love that you have been getting the word open with others for such a long time and therefore having more confidence maybe because you've seen that in action as well. But what a, yeah, so helpful just to think we don't need to have it all sort of tied up and that in our 20 minutes or half an hour, whatever it is, it's unlikely that we're all suddenly on board with something that maybe we haven't thought about deeply before. Yeah, okay, so Micah, we do have a lot of the judgment, but we also have huge, profound revelation of God's character, and that's what we've been enjoying as well as we've been in the book. Anything particularly struck you afresh about God's character as you've been in Micah with Rachel?
Amy: Yes, I think the warnings about teaching and how God feels about what his teachers say about him have been striking and seeing both the challenge in that but also the goodness of God that he cares so much about the believers in Israel that he will act to stop that false teaching. So just seeing God's goodness in that, you know, the descriptions of the false leaders or the bad leaders are just devastating in Micah. And so if you take God's judgment out of that picture, you're left thinking, what, we just have to live with these people and we just have to carry on like this? That doesn't sound great. So just seeing how good God is for his people. And then just from yesterday, I was really enjoying chapter four, verse two, and that God is saving his remnant for, saving this people for hanging out on the mountain in his temple. that's, so he's not just sort of saving his people because he said he would, and then he's like, look, I've done it, and that's the end of the story. But actually the whole goal and the whole purpose is this mountain temple presence of God thing which is such I mean it's just a massive thread through the whole Bible and the verse just says he'll teach us his ways so that we may walk in his paths that he loves to bring us to relationship with him so that we get to walk in his ways that are so good so just that kind of that bigger purpose of why all this is happening is so relational and so compelling and yeah, I really enjoyed that verse.
Sarah: So good, isn't it? There's so much in here and I think that's been the surprise, isn't it? Yeah, it's actually a fairly short punchy prophet, but there's so much treasure to dig in there, isn't it? And so much that God is choosing to reveal about his character. And it's such a miss not to enjoy getting Micah open, isn't it? And to explore this less familiar prophet. We're gaining so much by going there and I think, yeah, Amy, it's been so helpful just chatting to you on that and just actually that encouragement to actually do that with other books. And that's what we're seeking to do on the podcast is to go there with the less familiar books because God's got something to say. There's a reason why they're in the words, isn't there? Just, yeah, super helpful.
Amy: Great to talk to you guys about it.
Felicity: Well, we're just so grateful. And we would love it if you would mind just praying for us as we just think about getting Micah open with others, for our listeners, and just going forwards. Would you mind just praying for us in that?
Amy: Sure. Love to. Yeah, let's pray. Our Heavenly Father, we pray to you so much that you are good and you are kind and you are abundantly generous to your people. And so whatever bit of your word we come to, we can have real confidence that you have something good and kind to say to us and you want us to understand it. So pray, Lord, for everyone who's getting Micah open at the moment starting to read it maybe for the first time and we just pray Lord that you would open our eyes to see what you would have to say give us soft hearts to your words particularly when it's more challenging and confronts the way that we think about the world and and think about you and we pray Lord that you would use this book in our lives to grow us in faithfulness and perseverance until the end when you are going to gather us up to that mountain and we get to hang out with you forever. Help us fix our eyes on that future and keep going until the end. And we ask it in Jesus' name, amen.
Sarah: Amen.
Felicity: Amen. Thank you so much, Amy. We're so grateful and it's just really good to be talking about what it is to actually get these books open rather than it may be just feeling like it's just those sisters over with their cups of tea who do this. But actually, it is possible. Let's give it a go. And if you have not yet kind of had the confidence to get the Bible open with someone, why not think and pray? Who could you ask? And just give it a go. And the Lord will be looking forward to being back with you next week for the next installment of Mica. Until then, we'll see you soon. Bye bye.
Sarah: Bye bye.